Naseeruddin Shah needs no introduction. He is an institute for actors, an entertainer par excellence for audiences, and he is his own critique. Starting his career in the 70s, Nasser (as he is fondly called) has acted in films he is proud of, like Nishant, Aakrosh, Sparsh, Mirch Masala, Albert Pinto Ko Gussa Kyon Aata Hai, Mandi, Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro, and some more. And then there are films he calls “ghastly”, but does not regret taking them up, for he confesses, “My instinct drove me; and my instinct has not always proved to be right.”
Known for being unapologetically unfiltered, Nasser also admits that he is returning to direction after 17 years because with his last directorial Yun Hota To Kya Hota, he did “a shoddy job”, and didn’t want to repeat the same. Naseer is now helming a short film, Man Woman Man Woman, presented by Royal Stag Barrel Select Large Short Films. Written and directed by Naseer, the film navigates a series of twists and turns that lead to one popular sentiment: love conquers all. Starring his wife Ratna Pathak Shah, his son Vivaan Shah, Tarun Dhanrajgir, and Saba Azad, the film aptly depicts the complexities of relationships in the modern world. As we sit down for a conversation, Naseer mentions that the idea of the film “kind of fell into my lap,” and we begin by asking why.
Excerpts:
The idea fell into your lap?
Well, it’s based on real life, about a friend of mine. A 65-year-old met a 70-year- old on one of these dating apps, I am not quite sure. They liked what they saw of each other, and decided to meet and after a while, decided to get married. When I heard about this, I thought it made for a very charming little story. The woman was a spinster; the man was a widower, with a grown up son. So I wondered, what it would be like if they both had children; what would simply be the relationship between those children who suddenly find themselves with a grown up sibling; how would they respond to that. This story occurred to me when the wedding of these two friends of mine happened. I thought, why not try to write a script about this and make a short film. Once I decided, it took six days to shoot it.
You have cast your wife and your son in the family. Do they turn actors on the set?
They leave their roles of wife and son behind when they are on the set. I’ve directed them both on the stage and I know how they respond. So I could use their own reactions in the film, instead of asking them to portray something which is alien to them. I actually wrote the script with Ratna (Pathak Shah) in mind for the woman’s role; and Vivaan in mind for the younger man. Working with family, it’s very convenient to have reversals whenever I feel like it. For Tarun’s role, I had approached a couple of well-known actors who didn’t think it worth their while to participate in a project like Man Woman Man Woman. Then I remembered Tarun with whom I’d acted in a play about 42 years ago. He was a slim young lad then, studying in college. And I met him again after all these years, and he had turned into a very handsome old man. I thought he’d be perfect for the part. He very readily agreed; didn’t show me any attitude; and participated wholeheartedly. And Saba, of course I’ve known her because she’s a friend of Imaad, my eldest son, for a long time. She is like family. We shot the scenes of Ratna’s house in one of the apartments that I use as my office. They were familiar with the spaces, with each other, and I got them familiar with the script, as time went by.
Your last directorial was in 2006, what took you so long to direct another?
I had resolved never to direct another film after that terrible experience. I was not prepared enough. I approached the film with the same attitude that I approach my work as an actor. I don’t do days and days of preparation for a part in a film; for a play, I do. But in a film, my imagination kicks off only when I’m actually on the floor and doing the job. So my mistake in making that film was that I approached it in the same way. I thought, when we’re on the sets, all I have to do is make sure that the actors behave real, and I chose the best actors I could find. Luckily, all of them said yes. I had Irrfan Khan, Paresh Rawal, Ratna, Jimmy Shergill, Konkona Sen Sharma and then many friends of mine rallied around to do tiny parts without asking any questions. People like Rajat Kapoor, Makrand Deshpandey, and Tinu Anand, who I had to call up in an emergency because I didn’t want junior artistes in those parts, though they were blink and miss kind of role. But these friends were very sweet and helped me out. So as far as the actors were concerned, I had the most marvelous time, but I think I let them down. And I didn’t want to do that again.
There were four stories in Yun Hota To Kya Hota; and the scripts of at least two of those stories were very faulty. I regretted having made that film and luckily, very few people saw it (laughs).
I was rushed into production; and I think I did a shoddy job of it. That is why I thought I’d never make another film again. And I still think I won’t make another feature film. It’s too much hard work. There’s too much organisation, there’s too much handling of egos; it is a management job, really, more than a creative one.
Would you also act again?
I definitely wouldn’t act in the films I direct because it would be too much of a task. I’ve acted and directed on stage. But that’s different. While acting and directing on stage, you can let your thoughts evolve, you can sit back and ponder; you can change things as rehearsals go along. With a film, however, you have to make quick decisions. And those have to be the right decisions, because if they’re not, then you’re in trouble.
Do you regret any role you’ve done in the past?
No, not at all. Because no one compelled me to do them. I made those choices of my own accord. Some turned out dreadful! Some turned out very good; but in each case, it was just instinct which drove me. Whether it was wonderful films like Sparsh or Akrosh, or Manthan or Nishant, or whether it was something ghastly like Zinda Jala Dunga or Mujhe Meri Biwi se Bachao; I just did it on instinct and my instinct has not always proved to be right. But I have no regrets at all.
Since you’ve mentioned that making a feature film is a managerial job, how has cinema changed or evolved?
As far as popular cinema is concerned, I don’t think it’s changed except for the fact that we have better photography and better editing. And they’ve discovered that there are some other places in the world apart from Kashmir and Switzerland where you can shoot beautiful landscapes!
But as far as the scripting and the depiction of relationships or the complexity of situations is concerned, I think we are still pretty far behind the rest of the world. It’s kind of embarrassing when you see something wonderful produced in Korea or Iran, or in Thailand, you know, and these are tiny little countries, and they make such absolutely marvelous movies. I think the filmmakers there are inspired by the life they lead, which doesn’t seem to be the case here. Except for a handful of filmmakers, people like Anubhav Sinha, Sudhir Mishra, Nandita Das, these people look around them and respond to the situation. And I think that is the most powerful and important function that cinema can serve — a record of its times.
The fluff, of course, stays the same, though plenty of people will disagree. But let me also mention that the younger generation of actors we have are absolutely wonderful. I think Ranveer Singh, Alia Bhatt, Rajkummar Rao and some others are really good.
What has OTT brought to the table?
OTT has perhaps shown us a mirror, because when people make films without the burden of having to please a distributor, or having to please a producer who insists on shoving in a song where it’s not needed, or a fight where it’s not needed, a lot of wonderful work happens, and it is happening on OTT. Though I think the license to use obscenities and sexual content is going a bit too far. I think a filmmaker should self censor, and know when to stop. It isn’t necessary to continue a kissing scene for three minutes! Okay, two people kiss, fine, we’ve got the point; you don’t have to go on and on showing us in what detail they do this act, or take off their clothes. It’s a novel thing for the filmmakers, I guess and they’re excited by it, but I don’t approve of it. Because I think that with nudity and kissing… acting stops over there, and reality takes over.
However, the standard of acting among our newer actors is really very encouraging. I have hope for the future because actors like Pankaj Tripathi, Geetanjali Kulkarni or Jamil Khan would never have gained recognition, if it were not for the OTT. And they’re all absolutely marvelous actors who were being ignored by the commercial industry because they only want pretty faces; their acting talent means nothing to them. They want bums on seats, and they want to show only pretty faces, that remains the same. So, I’m not very hopeful about mainstream cinema.
Another disturbing aspect is the emergence of this jingoistic cinema that we’re seeing a bit of and which the government seems to be encouraging. I mean, it’s not enough to love your country; you have to beat a drum about it! I don’t like to see these films. It troubles me that they are so terribly successful at the box office. Whereas films like Afwah, Bheed and Faraaz are ignored by the audiences. So it’s the same old story really, as it was when I started in the 70s, where very few of the films that Shyam (Benegal) made were box office successes, but it’s important that these films get made for posterity.
Did you always want to be an actor?
There are two things I wanted to be — a cricketer or an actor. I still love cricket though I hate the IPL because that’s fast food! I enjoy the artistry in cricket, the sportsmanship, the atmosphere of white clad players on a beautiful green field. So Test matches are what I watch. I am not too hooked on the One-Day game but Test matches I invariably watch.
I gave up trying to be a cricketer because at that time, there were only 11 people in the country who were selected for the Indian team. When we were kids, there was one Test series played in a year. There are five countries in the world which played cricket at that time — India, Pakistan, West Indies, England, Australia, that’s it. So I realised that this was futile. I chose the easier option — of becoming an actor (laughs).
Did you play state level?
No! Only club level. I enjoyed the game. I loved batting. Of course, everybody loves batting! But I loved bowling and keeping wicket and fielding. I just loved every aspect of the game. I was average at all, but just being on the field and being part of the game was good enough for me. And I think the greatest moments of joy I’ve experienced are either on the cricket field or on the stage.
So who is your favourite cricketer?
My favourite cricketer is Mansoor Ali Patudi. In the current lot, I like Jaspreet Bhumra very much. I think he is quite terrific. I like Rishab Pant and Ravichandra Ashwin. All of them are skillful of course, I’m not knocking anybody out. But if I was asked to name my favourites, these three would top the list.
I loved Rahul Dravid. I admired his attitude, his dignity. And the same goes for Anil Kumble. But Patudi tops the list because it’s amazing that he represented India six months after losing an eye! That is an incredible feat. He was the one who advanced the quality of fielding. He was the first great fielder and after him several followed. I never saw him play of course; Test matches were held only in four cities then — Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, Kanpur. And I was in boarding school. So I would just listen to the commentary all day. And I used to cut out their pictures from the newspapers and collect them; I had a thick album.
How would you sum up your journey as an actor?
It’s been a joyride! I feel very fortunate and very blessed that I have been able to do what I love and get paid for it (laughs).
I think actors should savour the opportunity they’ve been given to indulge, if I can say, in this activity, which is not a normal activity. I mean, pretending to be someone else all the time is hardly normal! But it’s such fun. And I think I took to it because as a child, I was somewhat withdrawn. I didn’t have many friends. I was not terribly good at anything, except spelling. I would get zero in geometry, but I’d score 100 out of 100 in dictations. Because of the kind of lonely childhood in boarding school, I think I took refuge in being other people. I’d imitate actors from films I’d seen, and I didn’t realise then that this was going to hold me in good stead in the future, which it has. I developed my diction and my emotional resources, and the ability to express ideas and to express emotions through myself. We are our own instrument. As actors, we don’t have a pen or paper or canvas or a musical instrument to help us convey. We work with ourselves, our own psyches, our own bodies. So all that dreaming that I did as a child, at the cost of doing badly in studies, ultimately helped me as an actor.
Man Woman Man Woman released on August 25.
Email: rupam@newindianexpress.com
Twitter: @rupsjain
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